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[充电器] MH-C9000官方FAQ(翻译)(更新高级操作部分)

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发表于 2010-10-14 11:14 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式

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本帖最后由 cheetah_chen 于 2010-10-18 11:09 编辑

此FAQ来源于MAHA官方网站(2010年10月12日)
中文部分为个人翻译,不代表MAHA官方观点。如有错误,欢迎指正!
关于以下中文部分的转载与节选,请注明出处。
MH-C9000 Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/mhc9000faq.asp


Basic Operations
基础操作


What are the recommended charging and discharging current for my battery?
The recommended charging current is 0.5C, or 0.5 times the battery capacity. The recommended discharging current is 0.25C, or 0.25C times the battery capacity.
Here are some settings for common batteries:
2700mAh Charge: 1300mA Discharge: 700mA
2650mAh Charge: 1300mA Discharge: 700mA
2500mAh Charge: 1200mA Discharge: 600mA
2300mAh Charge: 1100mA Discharge: 600mA
2200mAh Charge: 1100mA Discharge: 600mA
2100mAh Charge: 1000mA Discharge: 500mA
2000mAh Charge: 1000mA Discharge: 500mA
1000mAh Charge: 500mA Discharge: 200mA
900mAh Charge: 400mA Discharge: 200mA
850mAh Charge: 400mA Discharge: 200mA
800mAh Charge: 400mA Discharge: 200mA
700mAh Charge: 300mA Discharge: 200mA
650mAh Charge: 300mA Discharge: 200mA
600mAh Charge: 300mA Discharge: 200mA

常用的充放电速率
常用的充电速率是0.5C或者说是电池容量X0.5。常用的放电速率是0.25C或者说是电池容量X0.25。
以下是对常见的电池容量的充放电速率设置建议。
2700mAh 充电速率: 1300mA 放电速率: 700mA
2650mAh 充电速率: 1300mA 放电速率: 700mA
2500mAh 充电速率: 1200mA 放电速率: 600mA
2300mAh 充电速率: 1100mA 放电速率: 600mA
2200mAh 充电速率: 1100mA 放电速率: 600mA
2100mAh 充电速率: 1000mA 放电速率: 500mA
2000mAh 充电速率: 1000mA 放电速率: 500mA
1000mAh 充电速率: 500mA 放电速率: 200mA
900mAh 充电速率: 400mA 放电速率: 200mA
850mAh 充电速率: 400mA 放电速率: 200mA
800mAh 充电速率: 400mA 放电速率: 200mA
700mAh 充电速率: 300mA 放电速率: 200mA
650mAh 充电速率: 300mA 放电速率: 200mA
600mAh 充电速率: 300mA 放电速率: 200mA  


Is there a way to charge batteries without pressing buttons?
Yes! The charger defaults to CHARGING mode at 1A if no button is pressed 10 seconds after inserting the batteries. This is the default auto charging mode and does not require you to program the charger.

有办法不按任何按键就给电池充电吗?
有的!放入电池后不按任何按键充,10秒钟后电器将默认以1A速率给电池充电。这个就是充电器的默认充电模式,不需要你对充电器做任何的设置。


My brand new Powerex batteries are showing a lower capacity than the label in the MH-C9000? Should I return these batteries?
When tested using the REFRESH/ANALYZE mode, the capacity will be lower than the capacity on indicated on the battery. To obtain a capacity that is closest to the rated capacity, use the BREAK-IN mode, which is similar to the process used by manufacturers to test and rate the batteries. Furthermore, most batteries have a typical and minimum capacity. The Powerex 2700mAh batteries, for instance, has a 2700mAh typical capacity and a 2500mAh minimum capacity. Therefore, a Powerex 2700mAh that tests to be higher than 2500mAh using the BREAK-IN mode is considered within specification.

我的新的 Powerex电池在MH-C9000上限是的容量小于标称容量,我应该退货吗?
当用REFRESH/ANALYZE 模式测试电池时容量会比标称容量小。想要获得标称容量需要使用BREAK-IN 模式,这个模式与厂家用来测试电池的方法基本一样。 而且,多数电池有典型容量和最小容量两种标识。Powerex 2700mAh电池的为2700mAh最小容量为2500mAh。所以一节Powerex 2700mAh电池如果在BREAK-IN模式下测试结果大于2500mAh就是合规的。  


The charger only allows capacity (in the BREAK-IN mode) to be entered in increments of 100 mAh. My battery is 2650 mAh. How do I enter that capacity?
Simply round up to the next capacity. For 2650 mAh battery, use 2700mAh capacity.

充电器对电池容量(BREAK-IN 模式里)设置的增长步进为100mAh,而我的电池容量是2650mAh,我该怎么输入容量?
直接设置成更高一级的容量。如2650mAh容量的电池,设置成2700mAh容量就可以了。  


Can I leave batteries in the charger? Does the charger keep the batteries topped off?
Upon completing the charge, the MH-C9000 goes to a very slow charge current (less than 10 mA) to keep the battery topped off. This "trickle charge" stops only when the batteries are removed. It is okay to keep the batteries in the charger as the batteries will always be ready for use. However, exercise common sense when keeping appliances constantly plugged in the wall.

充电完成后如果我不把电池取出,电池会被保持在满电状态吗?
电池充电完成后,MH-C9000会继续以非常低的充电速率(小于10mA)对电池进行充电,以保持电池的满电状态。这种“涓流充电”状态会一直保持到电池被从充电槽中移走。所以把在充电完成后把电池继续留在充电槽中一点问题也没有,电池会永远处在满电状态。当然,充电器的电源插头可不能从墙上拔下来。  


Using the BREAK-IN mode, I am seeing a charging capacity much higher than the capacity I programmed. Why is the battery overcharged?
When using the BREAK-IN mode, the charger puts in 1.6 times the capacity of the battery (entered at the start of the charge). This does not cause any harm to the battery as the charging rate is very low (only 10% of the battery capacity). The increased total charging capacity compensates for energy lost as heat. This is the charging scheme recommended by International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC).

当使用 BREAK-IN 模式的时候,我看到充电容量比我设置的电池容量高很多,为什么电池会被过冲?
当使用BREAK-IN 模式的时候,充电器给电池灌进1.6倍的电量(从最开始充电算)。但是因为充电电流比较小(只有电池容量的10%),所以对电池一点伤害都没有。过冲的能量被转换成了热能。这是国际电子技术委员(IEC)会给出的充电方案。  


I am charging some older batteries and see that the charging capacity is much higher than the capacity I programmed. Why doesn�t the charger terminate correctly?
The charger terminates by voltage and by temperature simultaneously. For certain older (and low quality) batteries, they do not produce the proper negative delta V signal (a small voltage drop at the conclusion of the charge) needed for the charger to stop. At the same time, the battery temperature failed to reach the termination limit as the charging rate was probably too low. To address this issue, you should attempt to perform a BREAK-IN mode on the batteries first. You should also use a higher charging rate.

当我为老电池充电的时候,我看到充电容量比我设置的电池容量高很多,为什么充电器不自动终止充电?
充电器终止充电的依据是同时判断电池电压以及电池温度。对于很老的(以及质量很差的)电池,它们不会向充电器给出正确的ΔV信号(在充电完成时的一个很小的电压下降信号)。以此同时电池温度也不会达到充电极限温度(因为充入电流太小了) 应对这种情况,你需要对电池先使用BREAK-IN 模式。你也可以用更高的充电电流对电池充电。
  

When using higher charging current, the charging capacity seems to reduce. Is this normal?
When charging at higher current, the charge completeness reduces thereby lowering the charging capacity. This is to prevent battery overheating. This typically occurs at a rate greater than 1500mA. Generally speaking, 1000mA achieves nearly full charge completeness for AA batteries. Even after the charge ends (DONE appears on screen), the charger will apply a topoff charge and continuous maintenance charge. Despite that the capacity on the screen no longer increases, the batteries are being topped off. If you would like to achieve better charge completeness at higher currents, a small fan can be added to cool the batteries externally.

当使用比正常充电电流更高的电流对电池进行充电的时候,电池充入电量变少了,这个现象正常嘛?
当使用比正常充电电流更高的电流对电池进行充电的时候,电池充入电量变少。这是由于电池过热。这种事通常发生在充电电流大于1500mA。普遍的说法是,1000mA的充电电流可以将AA电池基本充满。 同样当充电结束(屏幕出现DONE标志),充电器会继续执行满电维持充电,尽管屏幕显示的电池容量没有增加,电池依然会被继续充电到满电状态。 如果你想用更高的电流将电池充满,可以用一个小风扇冷却电池表面。  


Why is it not recommended to charge battery below 0.33C?
When charging below 0.33C (except in BREAK-IN) mode, the batteries may not produce a sufficient end-of-charge signal for the charger to terminate correctly. Although the temperature sensors will safeguard battery overheating, lower charging rate might not cause enough heating in the batteries to trip the sensors. If low charging rate is desired, you should use the BREAK-IN mode. Charging in that mode is terminated by only time (1.6 times battery capacity) and temperature.

为什么不建议用小于0.33C的电流充电?
当用小于0.33C(除了BREAK-IN模式外)的电流对电池进行充电,充电器可能不能获得足够强的充电终止信号以截至充电。同样温度感应器会因为电池过热而终止充电,但由于充电电流太低,也不能另电池产生足够的热量让温度传感器感应。 如果你想用很低的充电电流进行充电,应该使用BREAK-IN模式。此充电模式只会因为时间(1.6倍电池容量)和温度终止充电。  


After the charge begins, why do I see an abnormally high voltage (~ 1.6V to 2.0V) on the screen?
In the first few seconds, the MH-C9000 performs a proprietary �high impedance� check to filter out batteries unsafe to charge including non-rechargeable batteries. During this time, a high current is applied and voltage measured to determine the impedance of the battery. The voltage will return to normal by the second time voltage data is displayed on the screen.

为什么我在开始充电的时候看见异常的高压(~ 1.6V 2.0V)显示在屏幕上?
在充电开始的最初几秒,MH-C9000会对所有电池做一个高阻抗测试。以过滤掉如不可充电电池等的非安全电池。在这个时候会输出一个高电流,而这个时候电池阻抗会被电压测定。 当第二次电压出现在屏幕上时,电压会回复正常水平。  


Why doesn�t the charging and discharging current reach the set values exactly? I thought the charger is supposed to be precise.
The charging and discharging current are pulsed, thereby causing the displayed current to go up and down. The capacity calculation is based on the actual current rather than the set current so capacity calculation remains accurate.

为什么充电/放电电流没有与我设置的不一致?我以为充电器很精准。
充电/放电电流是脉动式的,因此会造成显示电流偏差。而电量计算是依据实际电流,所以电量计算依旧是准确的。  


I am using the CHARGE mode. Why is the capacity different than my battery capacity?
The capacity displayed in any charging process is called the �charging capacity.� This is the amount of energy put into the batteries. This number does not equal to the battery�s capacity as it is dependent on the amount of charge already in the battery as well as the battery�s internal resistance. For example, a half used 2000mAh battery may only show a charging capacity of 1000mAh since the battery is half full. It is normal for the charging capacity to exceed battery capacity by as much as 30% depending on battery brand and charging rate. To determine the battery�s useful capacity, you must look at a �discharge capacity.� Such information is available in the REFRESH & ANALYZE, BREAK-IN, DISCHARGE, and CYCLE modes. Note that the battery is not recharged in the DISCHARGE mode.

我使用CHARGE模式。为什么电量与我电池的电量不符?
在任何充电过程中电量的显示都叫做‘充电电量’。这是统计充进电池的能量。这个电量不等于电池容量。能充进电池的电量还取决于电池剩余电量, 举个例子,用了一半的2000mAh电池显示的电池充电量只有1000mAh因为电池还有一半的电。 充电电量超过电池电量30%也很正常,这取决于电池的品质以及充电电流。 判断电池的可用电量需要看‘放电电量’。这个信息可以在REFRESH & ANALYZE, BREAK-IN, DISCHARGE和CYCLE模式中找到。请注意,电池在DISCHARGE模式下不会被充电。  


How do I tell if the capacity displayed on the screen is charging or discharging capacity?
If charging or discharging is in-progress, a blackbox contain either CHARGE or DISCHG will be displayed on the screen. The capacity shown during charging is always the charging capacity. Similarly, the capacity shown during discharging is the discharging capacity. In the CHARGE mode, the final capacity displayed (after DONE appears) is the charging capacity. In the REFRESH & ANALYZE and BREAK-IN mode, the final capacity displayed is the discharging capacity. The battery have also been recharged after the discharge. In the DISCHARGE mode, the final capacity displayed is also the discharging capacity. However, the battery is not recharged. In the CYLCE mode, the capacities saved in memory always refer to the discharging capacity.

我怎么分辨屏幕上显示的电量是充电电量还是放电电量?
如果在充电或者放电过程中,屏幕上会显示一个黑框的CHARGE or DISCHG。在充电过程中显示的电量就是充电电量,同样,在放电过程中显示的电量就是放电电量。 在CHARGE模式下,最后显示(DONE标志显示后)的电量是充电电量。 在 REFRESH & ANALYZE 和 BREAK-IN 模式下,最后显示的是放电电量。而且电池会在放电结束后对电池进行充电。 在 DISCHARGE 模式下,最后显示的依然是放电电量。但是电池会在放电结束后不会对电池进行充电。 在 CYLCE 模式下, 被存贮在存储器中的都是放电电量。  


There is an arrow that moves below the slot number. What does it mean?
The LCD screen displays information a slot at a time. The information (capacity, current, time, voltage) is displayed twice before moving on to the next slot. The arrow points to the slot reporting.

在电池槽数字下移动的箭头代表什么意思?
LED显示器同一时间只显示一个槽位的信息。这些信息(电量,电流,时间,电压)在显示下一个槽位的信息前会重复显示2次。箭头所指的点,是正在显示信息的槽位。  


Is it normal for the batteries to get warm during charging?
Yes, batteries do get warm during the charge due to both internal heat and heat produced by the charger. Lower charging rate can yield lower battery temperature, but it is not recommended to go below 0.33C or 0.33 times the battery capacity. Adding an external fan can also cool the battery.

充电过程中电池温度升高正常嘛?
正常,在充电过程中电池发热是由于电池内部发热以及充电器带来的热量共同造成的。.降低充电电流可以降低电池温度,但是建议不要用低于0.33C或者说是低于电池容量的0.33倍电流对电池进行充电。 加一个外置风扇可以降低电池温度。  


The manual makes recommendations for charging rates. How about discharging rate?
Most NiMH batteries can accept discharge rate up to 3 times its capacity. A higher discharge rate will yield lower capacity. For accurate capacity measurement, use the BREAK-IN mode which complies with IEC standards (0.2C discharge rate).

说明书对充电速率进行了建议,那放电速率呢?
大多数镍氢电池可以接受3倍于自身容量的放电速率。高放电速率会导致释放更少的电量。 如果要进行准确的电量测量,用符合IEC规范(0.2C放电速率)的BREAK-IN模式。  


Is the MH-C9000 compatible with the new "low self-discharge" batteries (e.g. Sanyo Eneloop)?
Yes. Follow the same charging rate recommendations for general NiMH batteries.

MH-C9000充电器适用于新的“低自放”电池吗(比如三洋'爱乐普'电池)?
适用!遵从普通镍氢电池的建议充电速率就行了。  


What is the maximum capacity supported by the MH-C9000?
The maximum capacity supported (BREAK-IN mode) is 20,000mAh making it compatible with future technologies.

MH-C9000充电器最大能适用多大容量的电池?
最大支持(BREAK-IN模式)20,000mAh容量的电池,为未来科技做好了准备。  


The charger cannot detect my battery. What can be done?
Virtually all batteries can be detected by the charger. Therefore, if a battery cannot be detected, it is likely not making good contact with the charger. This can be caused by improper seating of the battery or battery not meeting the IEC dimension standard. Try rotating the battery or placing it in another slot.

充电器不能检测到我的电池,我该怎么办?
实际上,电池能够被充电器检测到的。因此,如果电池不能被检测到,应该是由于电池没能与充电器好好接触。可能是由于电池放置的位置不对,或者电池不符合IEC规范。请尝试旋转电池或者把换一个槽位。
  

There is a faint noise emanating from the charger. Is this normal?
The charger can produce some high frequency hum, which is generated by the high frequency pulse charging and switchers.

有轻微的噪音从充电器中发出正常吗?
充电器会产生高频率的嗡鸣声,这是由于高频率的脉冲充电跟开关。  


Why doesn't the charger show "DONE" instantly when I insert fully charged batteries?
The charger takes several minutes to detect whether or not a battery is fully charged. It is normal for the charger to put in a small amount of charge to fully charged batteries.

当我把满电电池放进充电器时为什么充电器不显示“DONE”?
充电器需要数分钟检测电池满否。充电器给满电电池充进一点是很正常的。  


The charger restarts automatically when I insert a new battery, or shows 0 mA during charging/discharging. What should I do?
Your unit may be faulty. Please contact Maha support for warranty services.

当我把一个新电池放进充电器中,充电器自动重启了。又或者在充电/放电时充电器显示0mA。我该怎么办?
你的充电器可能存在缺陷。请联系Maha售后部门取得保修服务。



Advanced Operations
高级操作



I multiplied the charging time by the current. The resulting capacity is not the same as the capacity on the screen. Is the charger faulty?
No. The charging current displayed on the screen does not include a brief rest period (a fraction of a second every two seconds). Therefore, the actual charging current is about 90% of the displayed value.

我用充电时间乘以电流,得到的容量跟屏幕显示的容量不一致,充电器有问题吗?
没问题的,充电器显示的电流不包含周期性的短暂间歇(每两秒间歇几分之一秒)。因此,实际的充电电流大概是显示电流的90%。   


Is it necessary to discharge the batteries before using the BREAK-IN mode?
Discharging prior to BREAK-IN mode is optional. Overcharging during the BREAK-IN mode does not harm battery as the charging current is very slow.  

我需要在使用BREAK-IN模式前先给电池放电吗?
在使用BREAK-IN模式前先给电池放电是可以的。在BREAK-IN模式下对电池过充不会对电池造成伤害,因为充电电流非常小。   


The MH-C9000 is showing "HIGH" error for my batteries, but it charges fine in other chargers. What can be done?
The MH-C9000 features a high impedance tester which can screen for defective/damaged battery. Most consumer chargers on the market does not have this feature, and therefore will allow charging batteries not may no longer be suitable for use. Maha recommends that batteries triggering a "HIGH" error be disposed for safety reasons, as charging damaged batteries may result in overheating or explosions. However, if you feel the HIGH error is due to a false detection, try charging the battery first in another charger, or drain the battery first using the DISCHARGE mode on the MH-C9000. This is recommended only for advanced users.  

MH-C9000显示就我的电池显示错误信息"HIGH" ,但是电池在其他充电器里能充电。我该怎么办?
MH-C9000具有高阻抗测试器,可以测出有缺陷的或者受损的电池。消费者从市场上买到的充电器大多数没有这个功能,因此这些充电器可以充那些也许已经不适合继续使用的电池。MAHA出于安全考虑让这些电池会触发错误信息"HIGH",因为这些电池或过热或引起爆炸。 然而,如果你认为此信息是错误的。可以尝试先用其他充电器对电池进行充电,或者先使用MH-C9000充电器的DISCHARGE模式把电池放干。此建议仅适用于高级用户。   


How does the MH-C9000 detect end-of-charge signals from the batteries?
The MH-C9000 uses a combination of Negative Delta V, Zero Delta V, Peak Voltage, time and temperature to determine the end-of-charge. In addition, proprietary algorithms are used.

MH-C9000充电器是如何从电池上获取终止充电信号的?
MH-C9000充电器结合负ΔV、0ΔV、峰值电压、时间和温度去判断何时该终止充电。另外还有专有算法。


------------------------------------------------
感谢:
xiaofeng000 在5楼、14楼及20楼对翻译不当之处的指证。
lvxc 在8楼对文字错误的指正。
jack017 在12楼对翻译不当之处及文字错误的指证。
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    [LV.9]以坛为家II

    发表于 2010-10-14 11:16 | 显示全部楼层
    沙发……
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    开心
    2022-2-28 09:34
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    [LV.10]以坛为家III

    发表于 2010-10-14 11:27 | 显示全部楼层
    下不了手入此神器
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    2017-12-3 12:59
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    [LV.1]初来乍到

    发表于 2010-10-14 11:49 | 显示全部楼层
    建议冲本贴射精……
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    发表于 2010-10-14 12:41 | 显示全部楼层
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    无聊
    2022-10-17 04:10
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    [LV.5]常住居民I

    发表于 2010-10-14 13:03 | 显示全部楼层
    公公的一句话。。。
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     楼主| 发表于 2010-10-14 13:20 | 显示全部楼层
    慢慢看 感谢lZ 
    感觉下面这句有点不太妥当。

    Therefore, a Powerex 2700mAh that tests to be higher than 2500mAh using the BREAK-IN mode is considered within specification.
    所以只要一节Powerex 2700mAh电 ...
    xiaofeng000 发表于 2010-10-14 12:41


    谢谢指证,已经把“只要”去掉,原来却是会引起歧义。{:1_215:}
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    发表于 2010-10-14 13:45 | 显示全部楼层
    这贴有用啊,感谢楼主分享。
    另外有两处错别字,就是“小于”写成了“小雨”,莫非楼主是“小雨工包”那里的常客,呵呵,改过来就完美了。
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     楼主| 发表于 2010-10-14 13:57 | 显示全部楼层
    这贴有用啊,感谢楼主分享。
    另外有两处错别字,就是“小于”写成了“小雨”,莫非楼主是“小雨工包”那里的常客,呵呵,改过来就完美了。
    lvxc 发表于 2010-10-14 13:45

    谢谢指证!已经更改{:1_215:}
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    发表于 2010-10-14 15:25 | 显示全部楼层
    放毒的又来了~
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     楼主| 发表于 2010-10-14 15:35 | 显示全部楼层
    放毒的又来了~
    wxd99 发表于 2010-10-14 15:25

    其实,虽然我翻译这个的起因是我买了C9K,但是上传翻译结果的目的不是放毒哦。
    这个FAQ里的很多内容,其实就算你不用C9K,也是很有用的。FAQ里有很多知识点。
    比如,如果你有一个1000MA的快充,去充容量可能不到1000MA的电池,其实是有害的。
    又比如你有个带放电功能的慧眼什么的,默认用500MA放电去测试电池。得到的结果其实并不准确。因为用放电的方法测试电池也要看电池的容量。用0.2C的电流放电结果会更准确。如果电池容量比较小,用500MA这个电流水平测出来的容量会小于实际容量等等。
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    发表于 2010-10-14 17:50 | 显示全部楼层
    The recommended charging current is 0.5C, or 0.5 times the battery capacity.
    but it is not recommended to go below 0.33C or 0.33 times the battery capacity.
    上述2句中的or,建议翻译成“即”,表明后面的文字是对前面文字的解释。翻译成“或者”容易产生歧义,使人(特别是新手)误以为是两种不同的模式之间的选择。其实这也是英文连词or的不同用法。
    另:产品说明书属于专业文书,文体比较正式,把e.g. Sanyo Eneloop译成“比如爱老婆”就不如“比如三洋'爱乐普'电池”显得更协调一些。还有一处:“充电速率”误为“充电速”了,以后输入“率”音时敲lv,别敲lu就行了。{:1_217:}
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    2020-11-4 02:08
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    [LV.Master]伴坛终老

    发表于 2010-10-14 22:24 | 显示全部楼层
    下不了手入此神器
    hilloo 发表于 2010-10-14 11:27


    下手吧,反正总要下手的,还是趁早。
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    发表于 2010-10-15 01:55 | 显示全部楼层
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    2017-10-28 11:02
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    [LV.9]以坛为家II

    发表于 2010-10-15 05:35 | 显示全部楼层
    这个东西要 仔细研究呢
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     楼主| 发表于 2010-10-15 09:38 | 显示全部楼层
    The recommended charging current is 0.5C, or 0.5 times the battery capacity.
    but it is not recommended to go below 0.33C or 0.33 times the battery capacity.
    上述2句中的or,建议翻译成“即”,表明后面的文字是对前面文字的解释。翻译成“或者”容易产生歧义,使人(特别是新手)误以为是两种不同的模式之间的选择。其实这也是英文连词or的不同用法。
    另:产品说明书属于专业文书,文体比较正式,把e.g. Sanyo Eneloop译成“比如爱老婆”就不如“比如三洋'爱乐普'电池”显得更协调一些。还有一处:“充电速率”误为“充电速”了,以后输入“率”音时敲lv,别敲lu就行了。{:1_217:}jack017 发表于 2010-10-14 17:50

    2400mah的电池,使用后容量下降了,变成2000左右了。
    那么原文的意思是推荐充电电流 0.5C(1.2A),或者0.5乘以2000mah (1.0A)

    英文确实不懂,但也貌似没见过or表示即这个意思的。。。 ...
    xiaofeng000 发表于 2010-10-15 01:55

    谢谢两位的建议,我改成“或者说是”这样的字眼了,不知道合不合适,哈哈~
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    奋斗
    2018-6-5 21:34
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    [LV.3]偶尔看看II

    发表于 2010-10-15 09:49 | 显示全部楼层
    哦,还不错
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    开心
    2014-12-11 23:52
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    [LV.1]初来乍到

    发表于 2010-10-15 12:05 | 显示全部楼层
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    擦汗
    2020-6-30 20:31
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    [LV.6]常住居民II

    发表于 2010-10-15 12:14 | 显示全部楼层
    看到有单放电选项,本来已经打消败这个神器的念头,但在慧眼失明後,又重燃起一丝丝慾火……
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    发表于 2010-10-15 13:40 | 显示全部楼层
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